I'd really like to discuss Chinese manners.. which are often more complicated than I'd have thought.. marrying a Chinese man requires a lot of learning.
Here's my cultural background.. My parents grew up in Thailand (maternal grandfather was from China so we have some chinese values too). I grew up in the US (IL). My husband is Chinese (parents are Chinese, grew up in Taiwan) and also grew up in the US (MN).
Sometimes I eat with a fork and spoon, using the fork in the left hand, spoon in the right, and I push food onto my spoon with the fork. This goes for eating rice, pasta dishes, etc. I also eat with chopsticks (and a spoon for soup). I cut up to half of my meat (if it's steak/porkchops) at a time when in a restaurant and use my fork in the right hand.
There are a LOT of things I have learned about Chinese culture where parents and children are concerned, particularly when eating. Supposedly, you let parents sit inside at the table (against the wall as opposed to where their chairs could be bumped) at a restaurant. I can never tell where I'm supposed to sit so I never sit down first anymore. In my family it doesn't matter.
In both cases, I will pour tea for everybody (including those younger and older than me). For elders you're supposed to do it if you're one of the older children. I even learned slow single finger-taps on the table means pour, and two taps means stop pouring. You're also supposed to serve food directly to elders (which in my family older does this for younger usually so it feels weird for me).
And you never eat first, even when encouraged, unless you're sort of a guest and they encourage you again (after your first refusal and your attempt to serve them first). And take anything offered you by an elder (or host) (plan in advance not to stuff yourself so you have room for the stuff they try to feed you at the end of the meal in particular). Don't add anything to your food (ie salt, pepper, sauce). Condiments are for show.
My husband didn't tell me most of these until I'd screwed them up, then'd he'd say so either right there (in a whisper) (which ticks me off majorly) or in the car afterward (acceptable). What's so natural to some, is totally new to others. He used to complain about my eating with a fork and spoon, saying it's weird. Come ON. I said sure, it's weird to YOU. He says no, it's just weird. Sometimes you just gotta learn new things. :) I think he's used to it by now. Of course he doesn't know how to eat that way.
Any other things that perhaps someone with similar experiences could teach me in advance? I realize non-food etiquette is off-topic so just food-related is OK. (or email me the non-food information).
On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:08:49 -0800, Tina Mongkolsmai
<tina.mongkols...@compaq.com> wrote: >I'd really like to discuss Chinese manners.. which are often more >complicated than I'd have thought.. marrying a Chinese man requires a lot of >learning.
[snip]
Your experiences are interesting to hear. :) I'm Chinese, parents were born and grew up in Malaysia and moved here when I was a baby. For most dinners at home, we eat with a spoon and fork in the way you mentioned--spoon in right hand, fork in left, fork used to push food onto spoon, etc. Surprisingly, we don't use chopsticks that often... Mostly for noodle dishes, and for when we go out to eat at Chinese restaurants. I was taught to cut up meat with knife in right hand, fork in left, gentle motions, elbows down, and only one or two bites at a time. We have no formal etiquette about who sits where, although if one side of the table is less roomy, kids will usually sit there since they're physically smaller. No etiquette for who eats first, either, and it is not uncommon for parents to pick out certain bits of food for a child, although it doesn't usually happen vice versa.
My dad usually takes charge of pouring the tea, although whoever has it nearest can do so. Sometimes "when" is signaled by a tapping of the fingers on the table, but not always. Oh yes, and condiments aren't always for show. When we were little, it wasn't unusual for my parents to have small bowls of chili peppers, or other things set out on the table. These weren't for decoration, although you certainly didn't have to use it! It sounds like there are cultural variations depending on where you grew up and what family you're in. Mine is not a very formal family, and Chinese manners have never really seemed formal to me...not compared to western etiquette, anyway.
I married a Caucasian, who adapted very well. My parents and their friends have expressed awe over how quickly and well he learned to use chopsticks. ;)
Ariane
P.S. I do have other friends (barbarians!) who, to my horror, have been known to dump sugar in their tea at a Chinese and even Japanese restaurant. Big no-no, at least in our family.
aria...@pepper.eajenkins.earthlink.net wrote in message ... >condiments aren't always for show. When we were little, it wasn't >unusual for my parents to have small bowls of chili peppers, or other >things set out on the table. These weren't for decoration, although >you certainly didn't have to use it!
My family uses condiments at home and in restaurants. (ie fishsauce with peppers, a sweet soy sauce mix, chili dipping sauces, etc). I think the Chinese do also in some cases. But it is supposed to be rude to add the basics, like salt/pepper/sugar/soy sauce to most foods for the Chinese, implying that it doesn't taste good enough. My husband told me when I put freshly ground pepper on my salad that it was rude. The thingy was on the table, and it was a vegetarian restaurant that served courses. Anyway, for us, it's usually a chili-spicy reason. :) Although my dad used to add extra fishsauce hehe...
In most Thai and Vietnamese noodle places they always offer some condiments which they expect you will add yourself (they don't put it in the soup). I can't speak for Chinese noodle places, but I was in a several restaurants in Taiwan just last week (first time there for me) and they didn't offer ANY condiments at the tables whatsoever (with that one exception, just ground pepper shaker). Not that the food needed anything, but I'll tell you, I think Chinese food here in the San Francisco Bay Area is better than what I ate in Taiwan. Ha. Maybe it's where I ate.
A college classmate from Singapore (Chinese) told me that it's usual to eat 'raamen' type noodles with chopsticks and a spoon. Use the spoon like a small 'bowl.' You have to put the noodles in the spon with a little soup broth, then eat it from the spoon.
> I'd really like to discuss Chinese manners.. which are often more > complicated than I'd have thought.. marrying a Chinese man requires a lot of > learning.
Snip interesting discussion.
I have nothing to add to this, but I am very glad you posted it. Fascinating. Since it's all so different to me (I've been negotiating the differences between Middle Eastern and US Southern middle class manners all my life) I could hardly follow. Now I live in a heavily Asian neighborhood in the SF Bay Area and I'm glad to hear about all these subtleties. I will be sure to notice who is sitting where next time I walk by a local restaurant and see a Chinese family eating dim sum or other Chinese food.
My policy in Asian restaurants is to cope as best I can. I still ask for a fork sometimes (I can't eat rice or noodles with a chopstick). I don't add sugar to my tea, much as I love it! I will be sending my son to family daycare in a Chinese home next year. When I went to interview the lady, I knew to take off my shoes exactly where I saw the stack of shoes at the door. She appreciated it!
>My family uses condiments at home and in restaurants. (ie fishsauce with >peppers, a sweet soy sauce mix, chili dipping sauces, etc). I think the >Chinese do also in some cases. But it is supposed to be rude to add the >basics, like salt/pepper/sugar/soy sauce to most foods for the Chinese, >implying that it doesn't taste good enough. My husband told me when I put >freshly ground pepper on my salad that it was rude. The thingy was on the >table, and it was a vegetarian restaurant that served courses. Anyway, for >us, it's usually a chili-spicy reason. :) Although my dad used to add extra >fishsauce hehe...
I've never experienced the stigma against adding basic condiments, so it may be a difference in experiences. Now, my family doesn't usually have salt or pepper shakers out on the table, but we do occasionally have soy sauce. I also don't refrain from adding salt/pepper to a dish if I would prefer a little more--for example, most restaurants have a hot and sour soup that I think needs a little more pepper. If it is rude, why the heck would the instruments of rudeness be provided? ;)
>In most Thai and Vietnamese noodle places they always offer some condiments >which they expect you will add yourself (they don't put it in the soup). I >can't speak for Chinese noodle places, but I was in a several restaurants in >Taiwan just last week (first time there for me) and they didn't offer ANY >condiments at the tables whatsoever (with that one exception, just ground >pepper shaker). Not that the food needed anything, but I'll tell you, I >think Chinese food here in the San Francisco Bay Area is better than what I >ate in Taiwan. Ha. Maybe it's where I ate.
It's been quite a long time since I've been in the SF area. My grandparents used to live in Novato, and we would visit them and eat in Chinatown quite often. I hope to go back sometime. :)
On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:06:32 -1000, Laura Kimoto <kimo...@hawaii.edu> wrote: >A college classmate from Singapore (Chinese) told me that it's usual to >eat 'raamen' type noodles with chopsticks and a spoon. Use the spoon like >a small 'bowl.' You have to put the noodles in the spon with a little >soup broth, then eat it from the spoon.
Oh yes, something we've done quite often. When eating noodle soups, the spoons are not like the usual western silverware--something which fascinated my husband. They tend to be plastic or porcelain(?), and are deeper and larger...ideal for piling up with noodles and other good stuff. <sigh> Now I am hungry for a bowl of pho from the Vietnamese place down the street. ;)
On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 aria...@pepper.eajenkins.earthlink.net wrote:
> Oh yes, something we've done quite often. When eating noodle > soups, the spoons are not like the usual western silverware--something > which fascinated my husband. They tend to be plastic or porcelain(?), > and are deeper and larger...ideal for piling up with noodles and other > good stuff. <sigh> Now I am hungry for a bowl of pho from the > Vietnamese place down the street. ;)
Last time my son had pho he ordered the version with 'rare beef and triple noodle'; he was a bit curious what the 'triple' refered to. Turned out the menu was poorly translated. He got beef and tripe :-) A few more mistakes like this and he'll start wanting some of my homemade menudo.
In article <uAxV5.24$s4.7...@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, "Tina Mongkolsmai" <tina.mongkols...@compaq.com> wrote:
I was born in San Francisco, and my parents are from China. I don't know if my family is weird or your husband's, but I've never heard of any of these things except that you're supposed to pour tea for everyone else when you pour tea for yourself. Never heard of the fingertap stuff, though.
>I'd really like to discuss Chinese manners.. which are often more >complicated than I'd have thought.. marrying a Chinese man requires a lot of >learning.
>Here's my cultural background.. My parents grew up in Thailand (maternal >grandfather was from China so we have some chinese values too). I grew up >in the US (IL). My husband is Chinese (parents are Chinese, grew up in >Taiwan) and also grew up in the US (MN).
>Sometimes I eat with a fork and spoon, using the fork in the left hand, >spoon in the right, and I push food onto my spoon with the fork. This goes >for eating rice, pasta dishes, etc. I also eat with chopsticks (and a spoon >for soup). I cut up to half of my meat (if it's steak/porkchops) at a time >when in a restaurant and use my fork in the right hand.
>There are a LOT of things I have learned about Chinese culture where parents >and children are concerned, particularly when eating. Supposedly, you let >parents sit inside at the table (against the wall as opposed to where their >chairs could be bumped) at a restaurant. I can never tell where I'm >supposed to sit so I never sit down first anymore. In my family it doesn't >matter.
>In both cases, I will pour tea for everybody (including those younger and >older than me). For elders you're supposed to do it if you're one of the >older children. I even learned slow single finger-taps on the table means >pour, and two taps means stop pouring. You're also supposed to serve food >directly to elders (which in my family older does this for younger usually >so it feels weird for me).
>And you never eat first, even when encouraged, unless you're sort of a guest >and they encourage you again (after your first refusal and your attempt to >serve them first). And take anything offered you by an elder (or host) >(plan in advance not to stuff yourself so you have room for the stuff they >try to feed you at the end of the meal in particular). Don't add anything >to your food (ie salt, pepper, sauce). Condiments are for show.
>My husband didn't tell me most of these until I'd screwed them up, then'd >he'd say so either right there (in a whisper) (which ticks me off majorly) >or in the car afterward (acceptable). What's so natural to some, is totally >new to others. He used to complain about my eating with a fork and spoon, >saying it's weird. Come ON. I said sure, it's weird to YOU. He says no, >it's just weird. Sometimes you just gotta learn new things. :) I think >he's used to it by now. Of course he doesn't know how to eat that way.
>Any other things that perhaps someone with similar experiences could teach >me in advance? I realize non-food etiquette is off-topic so just >food-related is OK. (or email me the non-food information).
aria...@pepper.eajenkins.earthlink.net wrote in message ... >salt/pepper to a dish if I would prefer a little more--for example, >most restaurants have a hot and sour soup that I think needs a little >more pepper. If it is rude, why the heck would the instruments of >rudeness be provided? ;)
Well, Chinese cooks are supposed to pronounce their food as horrible, not good at all, meaning they worked hard on this special meal and you're supposed to taste some and pronounce it delicious. The condiments are there as a politeness to guests by the hosts. I think condiments are on the table because people here expect it and ask for it.
Leila A. wrote in message <3A2748D8.BACA7...@yahoo.com>... >I will be sending my son to >family daycare in a Chinese home next year. When I went to interview the >lady, I knew to take off my shoes exactly where I saw the stack of shoes >at the door. She appreciated it!
Leila, I agree, this is really appreciated in Asian homes. I think it's in most Asian cultures to take off shoes before entering the house. Sometimes house-slippers are offered, but my experience is that generally we don't use them on carpets, moreso on linoleum or wood floors. The exception is for wet-floor bathrooms; in general they offer wet-room slippers (because the baths don't have shower curtains and/or the floor gets very wet.
Tony Ning Lew wrote in message <907sav$ij...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>... >I was born in San Francisco, and my parents are from China. >I don't know if my family is weird or your husband's, but >I've never heard of any of these things except that you're supposed >to pour tea for everyone else when you pour tea for yourself. >Never heard of the fingertap stuff, though.
I wonder if it could maybe be a Taiwanese or Japanese thing, because I never saw anyone else do that before either, but one of my husband's uncles and his uncle's wife do that. Hmm... but I know that some things are family-specific. Off topic comment, I had an office-mate once that grew up in the US on both coasts and claimed to know all about what was Chinese, claiming about various things, "it's a Chinese thing", but didn't really speak much Chinese. I couldn't confirm or deny her claims, but another other co-worker grew up in Hong Kong and of course knew better and together we privately made faces at the know-it-all. hehe.
On the noodle soup thing, those spoons are really great. I should get a few more, I only ever had 4 and lost 1-2. My parents don't use them that much (they use regular spoons) but I like them. I stack them pretty high with noodles, too. Brisket and tripe is my husband's and my favorite at the Vietnamese place we eat at.
Another thought... anyone know how the Chinese banquet is supposed to go? I've had family-style banquets many times but never remember the order of foods. There's a steamed fish (usually soy sauce), a warm soup dessert (peanut, red bean, lotus), a noodle (often chicken mushroom bamboo shoot type with egg noodle), a soup (wonton or hot and sour, or crab corn, or egg drop.. shark fin), rice and several dishes like a shrimp dish, a lobster, a beef... hmm.. there's sometimes a cold chicken course.. ? Jellyfish appetizer? I don't know! There's sooo many options. I love Chinese banquets. The big family meals where we take up several tables in Thailand, though, those are just really GREAT! :) We've done some Chinese ones, but generally we don't follow the Chinese banquet, even though a lot of standard courses get covered. We have usually peking duck or the pork version (has crispy pork skins) and plenty of Thai dishes. :) makes me hungry. Hungry for Doo-Dee noodles. (a spicy tom-yum guay teow place, one of my cousin's favorites!) spicy and flavorful. hehe. Oh well, maybe next year!
On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:44:40 -0800, Leila A. <leila...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[snip]
>My policy in Asian restaurants is to cope as best I can. I still ask for >a fork sometimes (I can't eat rice or noodles with a chopstick).
Well, neither can I. I need at least two. ;) Chopsticks do take a lot of practice. When eating rice and accompanying stir fry, I find that I'm more often using the end of the chopsticks as a scoop rather than actually picking stuff via squeezing the ends together around the item. Noodles are easier, IMO.
>I don't >add sugar to my tea, much as I love it! I will be sending my son to >family daycare in a Chinese home next year. When I went to interview the >lady, I knew to take off my shoes exactly where I saw the stack of shoes >at the door. She appreciated it!
My family does this as well. I don't know how traditional of a custom it is in China, but my mother hates people who track dirt on her carpets. ;D
In article <T5TV5.26$s4.8...@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, "Tina Mongkolsmai" <tina.mongkols...@compaq.com> wrote:
>Tony Ning Lew wrote in message <907sav$ij...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>... >>I was born in San Francisco, and my parents are from China. >>I don't know if my family is weird or your husband's, but >>I've never heard of any of these things except that you're supposed >>to pour tea for everyone else when you pour tea for yourself. >>Never heard of the fingertap stuff, though.
>I wonder if it could maybe be a Taiwanese or Japanese thing, because I never
Could be. All the Chinese people I know are from Cantonese backgrounds. Don't know anyone from Taiwan.
In article <3A2748D8.BACA7...@yahoo.com>, "Leila A." <leila...@yahoo.com> wrote: > My policy in Asian restaurants is to cope as best I can. I still ask for > a fork sometimes (I can't eat rice or noodles with a chopstick).
While my son, Nathan, was crawling and learning to walk, we always asked our guests to remove their shoes prior to entering our living room and den (the 2 rooms Nathan was allowed to crawl/walk). Luckily, we have a large foyer with a built-in Deacon's bench. We always offered those rubber-bottomed socks for everyone to wear - so as to not have naked feet <G>. The main reason for doing this, other than the added vacuuming due to dirt, was that I noticed a piece of broken glass on the carpet that apparently was brought in on somebody's shoes. No glasses had been broke nor were any broken bottles brought into or out of the house, so.... shoes were the logical answer. Nothing like the fear of having a child hurt can help you change the house rules.
On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:37:30 -0800, Tina Mongkolsmai
<tina.mongkols...@compaq.com> wrote: >Well, Chinese cooks are supposed to pronounce their food as horrible, not >good at all, meaning they worked hard on this special meal and you're >supposed to taste some and pronounce it delicious. The condiments are there >as a politeness to guests by the hosts. I think condiments are on the table >because people here expect it and ask for it.
So I've heard (and Amy Tan's _Joy Luck Club_ seems to bear out this idea, too) but I've never witnessed it in my immediate circle. I wouldn't be surprised if it was traditional, but it is another cultural thing that varies from individual to individual.
[snip]
>Another thought... anyone know how the Chinese banquet is supposed to go? >I've had family-style banquets many times but never remember the order of >foods. There's a steamed fish (usually soy sauce), a warm soup dessert >(peanut, red bean, lotus), a noodle (often chicken mushroom bamboo shoot >type with egg noodle), a soup (wonton or hot and sour, or crab corn, or egg >drop.. shark fin), rice and several dishes like a shrimp dish, a lobster, a >beef... hmm.. there's sometimes a cold chicken course.. ? Jellyfish >appetizer? I don't know! There's sooo many options. I love Chinese >banquets. The big family meals where we take up several tables in Thailand, >though, those are just really GREAT! :) We've done some Chinese ones, but >generally we don't follow the Chinese banquet, even though a lot of standard >courses get covered. We have usually peking duck or the pork version (has >crispy pork skins) and plenty of Thai dishes. :) makes me hungry. Hungry >for Doo-Dee noodles. (a spicy tom-yum guay teow place, one of my cousin's >favorites!) spicy and flavorful. hehe. Oh well, maybe next year!
<sigh> It's been a while since I've had anything approaching an authentic banquet--such things are hard to find in Ohio, even in areas with a concentration of Asians. As I recall, there are cold meat dishes (looks a bit like roast beef, sliced thin) and slightly spicy jellyfish strips to start, maybe some chicken or duck. Later came veggies, soups, and more meat dishes, usually a large steamed fish or two, etc. Dessert would probably be the sweet red bean soup which *I* have never learned to like, but my mother makes on special occasions. I'm not very clear on the order of the entrees, though. On Chinese New Year (which will be coming up before TOO long!) we have similar dishes as well. A lot of auspicious foods (one of my mother's friends explained some of it to me) with good-sounding names, etc. Usually someone brings roast duck, maybe have a boiled chicken with sauces, steamed fish, vegetable dishes, tempeh, noodles, etc. Desserts tend to be more western, cakes and cookies. My stomach is rumbling...
> While my son, Nathan, was crawling and learning to walk, we always > asked our guests to remove their shoes prior to entering our living > room and den (the 2 rooms Nathan was allowed to crawl/walk). Luckily, > we have a large foyer with a built-in Deacon's bench. We always > offered those rubber-bottomed socks for everyone to wear - so as to > not have naked feet <G>. The main reason for doing this, other than > the added vacuuming due to dirt, was that I noticed a piece of broken > glass on the carpet that apparently was brought in on somebody's > shoes. No glasses had been broke nor were any broken bottles brought > into or out of the house, so.... shoes were the logical answer. > Nothing like the fear of having a child hurt can help you change the > house rules.
The removal of shoes indoors is a wonderful practice. It is of course a standard part of Japanese culture. Broken glass aside, just think of the things you may step in during the day - dog shit, old gum, a wad of phlegm some tuberculosis patient hacked up - and the benefits of leaving shoes at the door suddenly become crystal clear!
>"Rick &/or Cyndi H" <rnchack...@home.com> wrote in message >news:H1XV5.99671$a7.1582210@news1.rdc1.il.home.com... >> the added vacuuming due to dirt, was that I noticed a piece of broken >> glass on the carpet that apparently was brought in on somebody's >> shoes. No glasses had been broke nor were any broken bottles brought >> into or out of the house, so.... shoes were the logical answer. >> Nothing like the fear of having a child hurt can help you change the >> house rules.
>The removal of shoes indoors is a wonderful practice. It is of course a >standard part of Japanese culture. Broken glass aside, just think of the >things you may step in during the day - dog shit, old gum, a wad of phlegm >some tuberculosis patient hacked up - and the benefits of leaving shoes at >the door suddenly become crystal clear!
Actually, it's not that clear-cut for guests unless the host provides disposable slippers, and I mean "disposable." In the summer I often wear sandals with no socks and I don't feel comfortable walking around barefoot in a stranger's house. Never mind the dog poop from outside, what about if anyone in the household has a foot fungus or other skin disease?
OTOH, I sure don't want to wear slippers previously worn by someone else! Ewww. In fact, asking someone to wear recycled slippers really puts them in an awkward position. Actually, unless the disposable slippers were certainly new (in cellophane wrapper) I wouldn't trust someone not to recycle them either.
When people ask me to remove my shoes I certainly oblige, and if it was rainy or muddy outside I'd expect someone to remove their shoes before coming into my living area.
But I don't think the reasons for removing shoes on sanitary grounds are compelling.
For a real sanitary issue, these days I am busy "training" the kittens not to climb on the kitchen counters or dining room table, and keeping Beany out of the refrigerator! The problem with having two of them is that they have me surrounded on all four sides. When they are frantically interested in some food, it's impossible to control them both at the same time.
Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
s...@addressin.sig (Curly Sue) wrote in <3a290248.54419...@news.rcn.com>:
>For a real sanitary issue, these days I am busy "training" >the kittens not to climb on the kitchen counters or dining >room table, and keeping Beany out of the refrigerator! The >problem with having two of them is that they have me >surrounded on all four sides. When they are frantically >interested in some food, it's impossible to control them both >at the same time.
and you only have 2? i have 9, but only one tries to get into the fridge. the deaf one has trouble remembering cats belong on the floor, but most of them know not to get up on tables or counters unless they want flying lessons :) lee <who can leave food on counters without cat disturbance most of the time>
On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Peter G. Aitken wrote: >The removal of shoes indoors is a wonderful practice. It is of course a >standard part of Japanese culture. Broken glass aside, just think of the >things you may step in during the day - dog shit, old gum, a wad of phlegm >some tuberculosis patient hacked up - and the benefits of leaving shoes at >the door suddenly become crystal clear!
eni...@empire.net (lee) wrote: >s...@addressin.sig (Curly Sue) wrote in ><3a290248.54419...@news.rcn.com>:
>>For a real sanitary issue, these days I am busy "training" >>the kittens not to climb on the kitchen counters or dining >>room table, and keeping Beany out of the refrigerator! The >>problem with having two of them is that they have me >>surrounded on all four sides. When they are frantically >>interested in some food, it's impossible to control them both >>at the same time.
> and you only have 2? i have 9, but only one tries to get into >the fridge. the deaf one has trouble remembering cats belong on >the floor, but most of them know not to get up on tables or >counters unless they want flying lessons :) >lee <who can leave food on counters without cat disturbance most >of the time>
I have a clear understanding with my conniving calico. I told her, in no uncertain terms, "Don't you let me see you up on the tables or counters!" She is very obedient. She doesn't let me see her do that. She waits until I am gone.
>The removal of shoes indoors is a wonderful practice. It is of course a >standard part of Japanese culture. Broken glass aside, just think of the >things you may step in during the day - dog shit, old gum, a wad of phlegm >some tuberculosis patient hacked up - and the benefits of leaving shoes at >the door suddenly become crystal clear!
>Peter G. Aitken
I only wish you could be specific...I had a hard time visualizing your examples <g>
j-lat...@neiu.edu wrote: > I have a clear understanding with my conniving calico. I told her, in > no uncertain terms, "Don't you let me see you up on the tables or > counters!" She is very obedient. She doesn't let me see her do that. > She waits until I am gone.
Yeah, it's pretty funny when you see distinct paw prints on the counter but you thought you trained the cats to stay off! I've given up-I just keep a bottle of Fantastik spray around, and wipe the counters clean before I start any food preparation tasks.
On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 17:25:58 -0800, Marca <ma...@mostlyNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>Yeah, it's pretty funny when you see distinct paw prints on the counter >but you thought you trained the cats to stay off! I've given up-I just >keep a bottle of Fantastik spray around, and wipe the counters clean >before I start any food preparation tasks.
We never had that problem while we owned our two dogs. Neither of them would put their paws on the table or counter to get at any food. Course, at 29" at the shoulder they didn't need to. Once I didn't put away the leftovers in time and Diamond sidled over and picked up the meat right off the table for me. What a good dog<g>. Trained me to quickly clear the table and put leftovers in the fridge.
In article <uAxV5.24$s4.7...@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, "Tina Mongkolsmai" <tina.mongkols...@compaq.nospam.com> wrote:
> I'd really like to discuss Chinese manners.. which are often more > complicated than I'd have thought.. marrying a Chinese man requires a lot of > learning.
It is complicated even for a Chinese to marry another Chinese from another part of the country. Every region in China, Taiwan, and Hongkong has slightly different customs. The important thing is to observe, see what others are doing and are expected of you, and try your best to acommodate.
> There are a LOT of things I have learned about Chinese culture where parents > and children are concerned, particularly when eating. Supposedly, you let > parents sit inside at the table (against the wall as opposed to where their > chairs could be bumped) at a restaurant. I can never tell where I'm > supposed to sit so I never sit down first anymore. In my family it doesn't > matter.
The elder ones are supposed to sit down first. You are not supposed to clear away dishes when others are still eating. (It's different at restaurant though, the servers always do.) You are supposed to wait for the elder ones to start eating first. If you are the first one to start a dish, give the first pieces to the elder ones. This should be done with clean chopsticks. It's usually not a problem because you would put some food on their plate (or bowl or rice) before you start eating yourself. And this is generally done by the host.
> In both cases, I will pour tea for everybody (including those younger and > older than me). For elders you're supposed to do it if you're one of the > older children. I even learned slow single finger-taps on the table means > pour, and two taps means stop pouring. You're also supposed to serve food > directly to elders (which in my family older does this for younger usually > so it feels weird for me).
You are supposed to pour tea for everyone (from oldest to youngest, first men then women. For example, Grandpa, Grandma, Father, Mother, etc.) and then yourself. About finger tapping, some people do it, others don't. From what I heard and my friends practicing it, it means "thank you". Here's the origin, from what I've heard:
At one time, an emperor wanted to go out like a normal citizen. So he disguised himself and went out with his servants (who wouldn't let him go alone of course). They stopped to have tea. When the emperor served the tea, the servants were supposed to kneel and say "thank you", but since they didn't want anyone to discover their disguise, the servants used their finger instead (bent and tap) on the table.
> And you never eat first, even when encouraged, unless you're sort of a guest > and they encourage you again (after your first refusal and your attempt to > serve them first). And take anything offered you by an elder (or host) > (plan in advance not to stuff yourself so you have room for the stuff they > try to feed you at the end of the meal in particular).
That's right, you are supposed to finish what they give you. And tell them that everything tastes great. It's common sense, isn't it? Showing graciousness.
> Don't add anything > to your food (ie salt, pepper, sauce). Condiments are for show.
As others have pointed out, if you use it, it implies that the food doesn't taste good.
> My husband didn't tell me most of these until I'd screwed them up, then'd > he'd say so either right there (in a whisper) (which ticks me off majorly) > or in the car afterward (acceptable). What's so natural to some, is totally > new to others. He used to complain about my eating with a fork and spoon, > saying it's weird. Come ON. I said sure, it's weird to YOU. He says no, > it's just weird.
When I pictured it, it's weird to me too. It's because I didn't grow up doing it. You should be able to be yourself with your husband, just pretend a little when you are with his relatives.
> Sometimes you just gotta learn new things. :) I think > he's used to it by now. Of course he doesn't know how to eat that way.
> Any other things that perhaps someone with similar experiences could teach > me in advance? I realize non-food etiquette is off-topic so just > food-related is OK. (or email me the non-food information).
In article <T5TV5.26$s4.8...@gazette.loc1.tandem.com>, "Tina Mongkolsmai" <tina.mongkols...@compaq.nospam.com> wrote:
> Another thought... anyone know how the Chinese banquet is supposed to
go?
It's usually 10 people sitting at a round table with 10 dishes. cold dish - jelly fish and others soup - crab corn, shark fin, never heard of wonton, or hot & sour for a banquet, just not chinese enough. meat - whole chicken, duck seafood - shrimp, scallop, and such, lobster - ginger and scallion fish - whole fish fried rice - house style dessert - red bean or lotus soup
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